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Men need an alternative to the toxic men’s rights movement

The Men’s Rights Movement make some valid points, it’s just a shame that everyone involved in it thinks such horrible things about women.

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Why is it that every advocate of so-called ‘men’s rights’ is a person with odious views who says odious things? The issues being talked about don’t seem to naturally lend themselves to people with odious views: reducing stigma around male mental health, helping boys who are struggling in school, helping men who have suffered sexual abuse, and so on.

But it might as well be one of those glib adages like Godwin’s Law or Poe’s Law, maybe something like this: every man who purports to be interested in tackling the difficulties that men face as a result of how society thinks about gender will inevitably turn out to believe and say vile things about women.

It’s odd because the reverse isn’t true at all. Women who campaign on improving women’s rights and almost always thoughtful and empathetic. The trope about radical feminists hating men has never had borne relation to reality.

It’s slightly depressing though because a movement to think about the way that society thinks about gender and how it negatively affects men could be a really helpful one. In fact, a lot of the claims that ‘Men’s Rights Activists’ make are true and important: there is a mental health crisis among men that is largely a result of the widespread belief that men should be stoic and indomitable.

Working class boys are facing an uphill battle to do well in school, and that’s partially as a result of the way that the education system isn’t designed with their interests in mind. Men who are sexually abused do find it difficult to speak out, especially if they were abused by a woman.

But when these messages are delivered from behind an anonymous Twitter handle — that also tweets about conspiracies to poison the water supply with oestrogen as part of a plot to feminise men — they lose the force that they ought to have.

If you stumble onto a men’s rights forum online, you would be forgiven for coming away with the impression that the greatest threats to the well-being of men in the 21st Century are government initiatives to end the gender pay gap. Articles are posted with titles like ‘the gender pay gap is the most outrageous lie of the modern era’, and ‘when accounting for the choices that men and women make, women actually earn more than men for the same work’.

These articles are filled with bogus arithmetic and statistical legerdemain that, if you aren’t neurotic and vigilant about the misuse of statistics — as most of us aren’t —, you are likely to be taken in by.

Whether or not the claims made by Men’s Rights Activists about the gender pay gap are true (they aren’t), the important takeaway from these online message boards is that the people claiming to care about improving the wellbeing of men who are suffering actually aren’t interested in that at all. What they are interested in is beating down feminists and working against the rights of women, rather than promoting the interests of men.

So, I feel as though I have a duty to call upon men who don’t have odious views or do odious things to denounce the vile ‘Men’s rights movement’ and start a decent alternative. There are plenty of young men who take to online message boards to say horrible things about the women they know — as well as women they’ve never met.

Where does this anger all come from? I think it’s mainly a result of a lot of young men who are anxious about their future, who are feeling that protections are being afforded to other groups — women, ethnic minorities, transgender people, etc. — that aren’t being afforded to them.

For the most part, the vile things that they say aren’t a result of hatred, but of fear and insecurity. An alternative movement that really focused on addressing the causes of that insecurity would be useful both in helping alienated young men with their problems and reducing the appeal of extremist anti-women rhetoric.

There are some groups that are already doing valuable work in addressing the issues that men have without being bundled up with a load of bile. CALM, the campaign against living miserably, has done loads of excellent work on helping men suffering from mental illness, and of reducing the stigma for men with mental health problems.

There are also feminist groups who try and explore how the patriarchy can be detrimental to men as well as women. But I think that there’s still a lack of a real movement that is run by men, for men, to help address social issues that affect men without making women the enemy and resorting to lazy caricatures of every feminist as a pimpled, pink-haired virago.

Maybe if such a movement existed, the existing Men’s Rights Movement would shrivel up and poof out of existence like it ought to, but I won’t hold my breath.

  • Charlie Hurd

    Readers should check out what men’s rights groups actually say, rather than the interpretation by this negative article. National Coalition for Men has a good website. They’re not anti female, they’re merely opposed to feminists who deny that men have issues that need to be studied and assistance given when needed.

  • Spasmolytic

    If it’s okay with you, I’ll decide as an individual male what I do or do not need. I have very little patience for Marxist meddlers.

  • Mike Noble

    What a load of ill researched, biased and lazy claptrap. Please provide evidence of the specific MRA sites and articles you claim to be describing or keep your inane drivel to yourself.

  • Jack

    This article is so incredibly lazy that it hurts the brain.

    • pablo rom

      Manginas are stupid, is a fact of life.

  • rtdave

    Not a single source, not a single name, not a single quote.

  • A MRA

    “But it might as well be one of those glib adages like Godwin’s Law or

    Poe’s Law, maybe something like this: every man who purports to be
    interested in tackling the difficulties that men face as a result of how
    society thinks about gender will inevitably turn out to believe and say
    vile things about women.”

    That’s how niether of Poe’s are Godwin’s law’s work. Poe never
    ascribes intent from the original author intent, its an entirely
    interpretative. A Poe only exists as Schrodinger cat in that once
    determined false or genuine it can exist as both. Its not definitive.
    Godwin’s is all probably chance, not a definitive statement. It never
    states Hitler will be brought up, its just more likely to happen.

    “It’s odd because the reverse isn’t true at all. Women who campaign on
    improving women’s rights and almost always thoughtful and empathetic.”

    Like who. Give me names.

    “The trope about radical feminists hating men has never had borne relation to reality.”

    ………….sigh “I feel that “man-hating” is an honorable
    and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to
    class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan

    “there is a mental health crisis among men that is largely a result of
    the widespread belief that men should be stoic and indomitable.”

    Conjecture.

    “Men who are sexually abused do find it difficult to speak out, especially if they were abused by a woman.”

    Because all to often nothing is done and when it is all to often the “punishment” is an insult to the word.

    “But when these messages are delivered from behind an anonymous Twitter handle”

    Stop. Stop fucking caring what Twitter cares or thinks or acts or
    anything. Twitter has no people, even when they put their name and/or
    face to it. Their are either famous or too stupid to realize that they
    aren’t real on twitter.

    “If you stumble onto a men’s rights forum online, you would be
    forgiven for coming away with the impression that the greatest threats
    to the well-being of men in the 21st Century are government initiatives
    to end the gender pay gap.”

    Projection. You feel what these people think. Did you ask them? The
    pay gap here is treated entirely like a punchline. Which it is.

    “Articles are posted with titles like ‘the gender pay gap is the most
    outrageous lie of the modern era’, and ‘when accounting for the choices
    that men and women make, women actually earn more than men for the same
    work’.”

    And why are these claims invalid? They just are?

    “These articles are filled with bogus arithmetic and statistical
    legerdemain that, if you aren’t neurotic and vigilant about the misuse
    of statistics — as most of us aren’t —, you are likely to be taken in
    by.”

    So what statistics are bogus? Like you clearly felt something wrong about them but……….?

    “Whether or not the claims made by Men’s Rights Activists about the gender pay gap are true (they aren’t)”

    That’s a lie. And you know that.

    “the important takeaway from these online message boards is that the
    people claiming to care about improving the wellbeing of men who are
    suffering actually aren’t interested in that at all.”

    Conjecture, again. I mean I would love to do more but I’m quite
    limited in what I can do. But if I had the platform you did I’d voice
    these legitimate issues instead of writing an article about how people
    on the internet can be equally rude and obnoxious as well correct and
    insightful on a variety of issues. That describes me. That describes the
    majority of people on the internet. But these legitimate issues aren’t
    as important these people over there on the internet being rude and
    obnoxious sometimes while other times being correct and insightful who I
    won’t name. Even the anonymous forum I went to.

    “What they are interested in is beating down feminists”

    Wanna know why? Go ahead, I dare you.

    “working against the rights of women”

    Which right and by who?

    “So, I feel as though I have a duty to call upon men who don’t have
    odious views or do odious things to denounce the vile ‘Men’s rights
    movement’ and start a decent alternative.”

    So men, I know life sucks. That cards are being stacked against you. I
    know that all these insidious ideas have infected nigh every corner of
    the government, workforce, and education to varying degrees. But not
    listen to those guys listen to what I, Sam Glover, a no name journalist
    and a no name site what to do.

    “I think it’s mainly a result of a lot of young men who are anxious
    about their future, who are feeling that protections are being afforded
    to other groups — women, ethnic minorities, transgender people, etc. —
    that aren’t being afforded to them.”

    These “protections” you speak of actively discriminate against men.
    The rights of men have remained stagnate for over fifty years but all
    these other “groups” have been granted “protections” under the law. If
    you need to divide the world and all its people into a group maybe you
    should look at the one who built the house your in and kept the
    electricity running on that computer you wrote this petty insignificant
    self-flattering article. Kicking men down is only kicking society down.

    “For the most part, the vile things that they say aren’t a result of hatred, but of fear and insecurity.”

    Conjecture, but you can armchair psychologist like the best fourteen year old.

    “An alternative movement that really focused on addressing the causes of that insecurity”

    So not a movement about our legitimate issues, but one to combat these “insecurities.”

    “would be useful both in helping alienated young men with their problems”

    Change the “ed” with “ing” on “alienate.” I knew there was a reason why this sentence was worded so poorly.

    “CALM, the campaign against living miserably, has done loads of excellent work on helping men suffering from mental illness”

    Never heard of them. Or maybe just forgotten. Doesn’t provide a
    link, I’ll check them out. Don’t have an about page, lets check an
    article at random.

    “Just 24 hours after revealing he was about to launch a new bottled
    mineral water infused with his own tears, Love Island star Chris Hughes
    has revealed that ‘L’Eau de Chris’ was, in fact, ludicrous.”

    First paragraph of the first CLAM article I read. The type of things important to men’s rights (slow clap single tear runs down face.)

    “There are also feminist groups who try and explore how the patriarchy can be detrimental to men as well as women.”

    Patriarchy? I’ll just use Hanlon’s razor. Can you name these organization, I mean, groups?

    “But I think that there’s still a lack of a real movement that is run by men, for men”

    I don’t care if women actually do become the more prominent leaders
    and initiators of this movement. I don’t care who’s run the show, I care
    that shit get done.

    “resorting to lazy caricatures of every feminist as a pimpled, pink-haired virago.”

    We didn’t create that caricature actually. You can find it in the wild actually. Not even that rare if you know where to look.

    “Maybe if such a movement existed, the existing Men’s Rights Movement would shrivel up and poof out of existence like it ought to”

    That’s what we ought to do. People who only want to make the world
    better by fixing an obvious problem with all to often obvious solution
    need to just cease existing. All these young men looking for meaning and
    finding solace in the fact he’s not alone in their experience but also
    in a desire to improve to standings for all men possible with the
    benefit of women. They need to cease existing. And you care about the
    mental health of young men. Okay.

  • Whothehell Cares

    Just wasted 1 minute of my life reading this clap trap.

    • McCoy Whitfield

      I had to stop half way through. Don’t even care how it ended

  • Vasile Andrei

    this is not an opinion based on facts, this is a hit job!
    the guy did not even bother to do minimal research on the subject, he just spew all the feminist labels for MRAs and he made an article out of that

    shame, you could find the truth in less than 5 minutes if you ACTUALLY want
    but I guess the feminists always go for the hate, blaming and labeling everyone that does not align with their sick hate filled ideology

    MRAs are labeled “evil” not because of their actions, but because feminists hate them
    is pure hate from feminists, and they are not shy to show it to the camera
    go see “The Red Pill” movie and see how feminists, ALL OF THEM, hate men and boys
    unlike this hack, the director of that movie was impartial and wanted to find out the truth, and exposed the lies and hate filled ideology of feminism

  • HappyCheese

    This article perfectly highlights the double standards surrounding identical female and male actions. I offer the piece below as a fairly standard Rad Fem POV. When are we going to see such feminists being denounced for their vitriol and lies the same way that MRA sites are? Never, because they have the power, and control the media and the educational establishment. Indeed it is increasingly women like this who are writing and enforcing our laws (Alison Saunders springs to mind): http://archive.is/wPES0

  • Mens Rights Sydney

    LOL, what an ignorant moron!

    I hate to be the one to break the news to you mate but feminism is dead, the corpse just hasn’t fallen over yet. Cause of death? Self inflicted gunshot to the head.

    It was the stupidity and the ridiculously entitled and censorious actions of feminists and the regressive left in general that killed it. All MRAs ever did was shine a light on it and show the world how irrational, mendacious, bigoted, and hateful you are and there was always plenty of video evidence to prove it.

    It’s not the fault of MRAs that everyone thinks you are a bunch of hateful raging looneys. You have your own damn selves to blame for that.

    Suffer in your jocks losers. The worm has turned and he has BIG fucking teeth.

  • Dan Summers

    So easy to Debunk and prove Wrong.

    Please learn how to do some research, cite sources and get some Journalistic Integrity.

  • Rahul Sharma

    Rubbish article.

  • An odious article by odious Sam who holds odious views.

  • Malcolm Newall

    It is amazing that this author is unaware of the econometric work done in the area of the pay gap, by solid groups like the St Louis Fed, that have said based on 2007 numbers the unexplained difference is 3% after allowing for things like benefits. The reality that the pay gap, is as presented utter nonsense. The reality that most economists who are women and have studied in the area of labor market economics say so as well, is important. That I had a prof who declared herself a feminist and was an economist, and her discussion of the pay gap, and research around it in 1986 made it clear that the gap that was not explained by working conditions, hours, nature of employer etc was less than 7% then, most serious research then said 5% when factoring for benefits. That is 5% unexplained that was presumed discrimination, and that is 30 years ago.

    • What few ever care to expose is that men work longer hours than women, on average, and thpically will commute longer distances to get to the higher-paying jobs.

      If those longer hours and the extra commute time is factored in, on average men earn LESS per hour than women.

      Yet nobody seems bothered by that. Nobody seems to care that men earn less for the time they devote to earning money than women do. Is that pay gap not discrimination? Does is not illustrate a systemic social inbalance? Well, feminists have no answer because they won’t even admit that men earn less than women.

  • Josh

    Sigh….

    I’ve spent considerable time reading literature from various MRA websites, and have seen very little that I would consider to be “anti-woman.”

    Important things to note:

    1. One can always find some statements of online trolls supposedly supporting a movement to cherry-pick, but one needs to look at actual statements by leading organizations and activists in the movement, and look at them in their original context to be sure they’re not seeing misleading out-of-context quotation like we’ve seen with Paul Elam.

    2. Feminist is not the same as woman, and anti-feminist is not the same as anti-woman. Feminism is an ideology which men and women can CHOOSE to support or not support. Being a woman is something innate and immutable.

    The men’s rights movement would like to be able to focus directly on its issues and not spend so much time addressing feminism, but this is tricky when feminists routinely try to disrupt and shut down men’s rights events and leading feminist organizations also oppose proposals for things like more equity in the family court system.

  • Forestsight

    Bigotry, plain simple. Men aren’t allowed to do anything without a feminist handler. That is where we’re at. Good luck Men.

  • Forestsight

    Try MGTOW and shake that feminist hate.

  • Rick Martin

    More opinion-based “facts”. Give us examples. REAL examples of this, not the claptrap crap put out by feminist “studies”.

  • Ryan Cavitt

    This article is so horribly written, unresearched, and slapped together my brain almost jumped out of my skull to go bathe in a bath tub of bleach.

  • piccolit

    if you replace men with feminist this article is just about right, as it is it’s totally lunatic, were you drunk when you wrote this article??

  • sctalln

    I think its going to be a while before the mens rights movement comes up with anything like the scum manifesto

  • Anonymous bin Ich

    MRA: Men should have rights.
    Feminists: Don’t listen to them they are misogynist. If you ask for any proof you too are misogynist.
    Normal people: You go girl! Men are assholes anyway! Here take some funding.

    ***decades pass***
    Normal people: MRA have some valid concerns.
    Feminists: YEAH but MRAs are misogynists! It is I who should still keep getting funding.

    • In understanding that feminism is really all about grabbing the money while pushing their dogmas, it is easy to see that they are against men but sometimes not seen that they harm most women and children, too.

  • “The Men’s Rights Movement make some valid points, it’s just a shame that everyone involved in it thinks such horrible things about women.”

    OR …

    The journalism profession write some valid articles, it’s just a shame that everyone involved in it thinks such horrible things about investigating the truth.

  • LisaPersson

    This article explains quite well what MRAs are all about. They’re all about misogyny. As mentioned there are good groups out there to tackle men’s issues, so if you need help, or want to help, please look them up by a simple google search. If you wanna know how MRAs act, just google that too, and you’ll see what toxic male ego bull crap is going on. They accuse feminists for not doing all the work helping men (though feminists are the ones starting the few help centers for men), at the same time they won’t do anything to help men themselves. They also attack men who do not conform to their toxic masculinity, male victims of sexual abuse/rape etc. If anyone has “MRA” in their Twitter bio, you can be sure they are attacking and harassing women online.

    • Let me spell this out simply.
      M = Men’s
      R = Rights (as in Human Rights, supposedly guaranteed to men by the UN, EC and by UK law)
      A = Advocate or Activist

      Men’s Rights Advocates are for men having human rights, the same human rights enjoyed by women.

      In some areas, some MRAs believe that equality for men is better achieved by less rights for women (e.g. not having the right to walk into the men’s changing rooms, rather than men having the right to walk into women’s changing rooms) but this is not coming from a hatred of women but personal views of how society can thrive best.

      Despite the feminist movement being hugely funded, it has not established a single help centre for men anywhere in the world. The UN feminists alone have an annual budget of around half a billion dollars. The budget to specifically help women outside of the feminist industry is zero. The budget to specifically help men is zero. Yet feminist organisations worldwide repeat the lie that feminism is there for everybody. Not so: it is there implement it’s version of cultural Marxism around the world without regard to the suffering caused to millions of men and women, and children.

      In the UK, for every case of a battered woman the government spends £ thousands of pounds of public money. Last time I calculated, for every case of a battered man the government spends £3 of public money (and most of that is in Scotland). Feminist doing things for men? Like the advice line for victims of domestic abuse that they run under government money: a woman phones and gets all the help available, a man phones and gets told to report to an anger management class or to report himself to the police as an abuser. That is the sort of “help” for men the UK feminists have.

      There are some foolish people believe that helping a man is the same as harming women – or at least, that is how they behave. Thankfully, these people are few but it is possible to search them out using Google. There are also documented cases, including police reports, of feminists having dummy identifications in men’s names and using this cover to call women names, saying nasty things about women, and to pretend to be an advocate for men’s rights. Strange as it might seem, you can’t believe everything you read on the Internet.

      As an advocate for men’s rights (and for children’s too, and even for women’s if I could find where they are missing a right) I wish I did not have to do anything with feminists. Unfortunately in almost everything I do to improve the lot of men, I meet with feminist challenge, disruption and denial.

      • LisaPersson

        You are now using your personal opinons as facts, and that’s not how the world works, sorry. Millions of women are harassed by MRAs every day, they hide behind the label, but all they do is attacking women, and men not fitting their view of “masculinity”. You can look at any MRA account on Twitter to see proof of all this. if you actually cared you would. There are multiple shelters for men opened by feminists in the world (you can easily find out on google), so yet again you’re just using your uneducated opinion. All the MRAs anti-female beliefs are misogynist, THEY are misogynist which is why they believe their anti-female opinons are what’s best for society. You really need to educate yourself before having this kind of diarrhea of ignorance bore us, you’re not doing yourself, or your MRA buddies, any favours

        • pablo rom

          ‘Millions of women are harassed by MRAs every day’ is a good example of how feminists lie, and lie big. I was reading another stupid feminist early stating that men ‘rape her’ with their thoughs, have anyone heard anything more stupid than that?

    • marcetienne

      You’re full of BS. MRAs have worked hard for decades to bring equal rights in child custody, victim services, criminal sentencing, and many other areas. I’ve been an MRA for 20 years. I don’t harass anyone and very few if any MRAs harass anyone. I’ve had to sue the state of California to overturn the laws written by feminist that exclude male victims of the domestic violence from services that are state funded. If you have a problem with MRAs you have a problem with equal rights.

    • pablo rom

      Google it? No thanks madam, google is HIDING the real info thanks to the Gaystapo/Feminazi police brigade (they are killing the company BTW), you can keep drinking your googled mental feminist toxic enchilada of hate toward men, thanks G*d intelligent people can see through your lame deception tactics & antics. Only dumb people buy the crap you’re spewing.

  • Daniel Winkler

    Are you serious? The language used by feminists towards men is horrid. Point out facts which prove them wrong, and you’re inevitably met with screeching and charges of “mansplaining”, privilege, toxic/fragile masculinity, etc. By and large, there is no more vocally hateful group than radical feminists.

  • Partha Sadhukhan

    Hehe.. Increasing number of people do understand that Feminism is vile and mras don’t need to convince them. This article shows feminists have become desperate now.. Only to help MRM.

  • pablo rom

    Another mangina beta cuck pretending to school real men on how to be obedient.

  • crydiego

    Sam Glover please, please do some research. This just makes you sound shallow and ill-informed.